I'll throw out another pile of horse manure that's going to hurt us down the road, the antivaccine movement. We're already seeing increases in measles and whooping cough because of declines in childhood shots. This ill thought-out campaign used to be played by left-wing suburban crunchy moms but Covid brought some conservatives on board. Did Fauchi and friends oversell the effectiveness of the Covid vaccines in a moronic plan to get more people vaccinated? Yes. But on the other hand thousands of people are not "dying suddenly." Sadly vaccine demonization has moved beyond Covid to vaccines for childhood diseases. If more kids start dying because their parents refused vaccines, there will be political carnage at the ballot box.
Do you need the answer to that question served to you on a silver platter by Fauci himself? Have you not even seen one headline about the stark rise in aggressive cancer rates among all age groups starting in 2022? Do you know anything about all cause mortality and the supposedly unexplainable trends?
Until Fauci actually faces consequences then why should people trust the CDC (which has a tranny high up)? You might just say “SCIENCE” but appeals to authority only work if the authority is trustworthy which the CDC no longer is which is why each administration will have different prescriptions
The vaccines are poison. The medical industrial complex is a fraud. The fake Covid vaccines are cause turbo cancers and blood clots. No, it’s not causing a movement away from conservatives.
The stupid thing is that every big happening from now on is going to get the conspiracy treatment, as various podcasters pile on. This does not bode well for the Western tradition of detachment and observation, as opposed to those who are ruled by emotion and superstition.
The late, great Z Man called these people carnies. Candace is a carny. So is Nick Fuentes, and sadly Tucker is now.
This is exactly what I've been talking about, although I would probably go further than Greer. This is the kind of lunacy you get from trad people with repressed sexuality who have absolutely lost control over their own minds. Endless focus on the JQ, well out of proportion, and pursuing a repressive social agenda (abortion, AV laws) is a major distraction from helping white people and reducing the power of non whites. There are many people who would prefer a hedonistic, pleasure seeking society (myself included, other people on the left, who you might call the racist liberals) who still want non whites heckin gone. Building bridges with them is a much more effective use of time than allowing these people to burn everything down. Jared Taylor has said much the same thing. And their troll king is Fuentes and people like Carlson, even though the happy couple has apparently now had a falling out. The only worthwhile part of project 2025 is deportations. The rest should be done away with. It was amazing to see the usually sensible actually take this, or them seriously The constant refrain you hear from these people is that they have more in common with a non white person (who will spread violence, filth, squalor and actively wants to harm us) merely if they agree with their trad opinions on cultural issues. This is apart from the fact that trad moral crusades always exclusively focus on persecuting lonely, sexually frustrated white males, whereas child predators, rainbow people and black males can do whatever they want. This branch of the right, the "it's not race it's culture" people who say "christianity is what matters" should be utterly expunged from the movement. I'm glad greer wrote this. There also needs to be a recognition that the need to remove such people is about safeguarding whites, it isn't a cover for some zionist agenda.
In general, I think you're right, but there's a number of reasons why in this context, you're wrong. Firstly, homogenous all white societies tend to be more permissive anyway. And this happened in ancient times too, so it can't just be explained in terms of the industrial revolution. Trad is non coded and most non societies are some form of trad. Second, most of the people who are trad (not saying there aren't exceptions) are either actively anti-racist, not as concerned about race, or they care but it's one thing juggled amongst many and so it undermines their racial concerns.
Moreover, just as Kevin DeAnna and Paul Kersey recently discussed the idea where even boomers who helped to promote diversity shouldn't have to live in suffering being abused by black health care "workers" at the end of their life, white people shouldn't have to live in constant fear of non violence just because they enjoy pornography and you disapprove. I'll believe trad is the road to white identity when I stop seeing people obsessed with sexual morality and repressing sex counter signaling race. And I'll wait for the rest of my life.
I think it depends on where and when, but certainly - much of it not good either. You've also had the inverse (e.g., Augustus mandating marriage). If you look at Africa, similarly, you'll find high permissiveness, especially historically.
I don't think your characterization is correct, most of those "trad" tend to be further to the right. There's certainly Christians that come close to it, but they are more liberal and put Christianity first - e.g., Joel Berry comes to mind - and echo what you described earlier.
Regardless, I'm not arguing in favor of trad politics, I think we're beyond it especially since "trad" politics basically start and end with 1950s, nor am I interested in going back to the past, I'm noting that degeneracy of society goes hand in hand with degeneracy in approach to race. Pornography is a great example, as it exemplifies commodification and degradation of human existence & sexuality; inability & lack of desire of politicians and the economic system to help people; exploitation of women as a form of feminism/freedom, and in turn, exploitation and degeneration of men who keep the industry going, which itself has negative impact on society. If you do away with what underpins the approach to race - which is a combination of capitalism/individualism/equality/etc, or in other words, things that make people interchangeable and exploitable - you'll inevitably impact things like pornography, prostitution, promiscuity, etc, because those some values/laws/economy underpin that, too. That's the entire purpose of these politics to begin with.
With that said, immigration is certainly the primary issue of 21st century, not religion, social politics, etc. However, trying to get people to abandon the rest won't lead to more people embracing the stance on immigration, and the solution certainly isn't to be fine w/ it, but rather to restore meaning, purpose, and morality, while making coalitions w/ others on key issues, and accept that disagreement will occur on other, less currently important issues.
Thanks for your thoughtful response, but you're just wrong. Africa isn't permissive, it's just that those people are so violent, low IQ and out of control it looks that way. The punishments in Africa are quite punitive and regressive, they love them some patriarchy (FGM permissive?), the initiations for adolescence for boys are brutal, I could go on and on. Congo is almost 100 percent Christian. That says it all. Japan has their own folk religion (Shinto? Don't quote me) and it's so safe, you could get drunk in the middle of a city and a random stranger will take you home. But oh no tentacle porn! "Porn exemplifies commodification...degradation" The bottom line is this. Our sexuality was shaped by evolution for many people (but not all) in terms of domination, raw desire. That's why prostitution is the oldest profession. Many men are drawn to the idea of dominating and oh my god yes exploiting women. That does not mean this desire should be given absolute free reign but the attempt to eradicate it has always failed and it always will fail. "The idea that mutants and humans can live together is only a dream. Your foolish dream"-Magneto to Professor X.
Most of the most impoverished places on earth, where politicians have the most absolute free reign and the citizen means nothing (or there are no citizens) are also places where, surprise surprise, there is also a great deal of repression of pornography. Without a release for those urges, men are there to fight wars for corrupt oligarchs, and enact violence against women. That's another thing. I do find this concern for female exploitation a little insincere, as the areas of the world where women are the most brutalized (Africa, Middle East) also have severe restrictions on pornography. We've obviously seen in the contemporary west what happens when white hating grotesque LGBTQ freaks control our politics, groom our children. This has nothing to do with pornography as even now most pornography is an attractive white man and an attractive white woman having passionate aggressive sex. People who focus on the aberrations are like the folks who say "but sometimes white people are violent". Yeah, sometimes they are. And? It should also be noted that one of the strongest anti pornography traditions in the west comes from crazy woke women who lie about men, hate white people and want to destroy the west. Remind you of anyone?
And I'm sorry, the whole "it's capitalism" thing just doesn't work. There are problems with capitalism, but there was a lotta porn in the soviet union and other authoritarian societies. This is another just so. Capitalism had its problems (and I'm actually not a capitalist) but it's not why porn exists, this is just lazy dworkin feminist marxism. Large scale pornography in the modern western context (but don't kid yourself, it existed before) grew out of the managerial era, long after laissez faire had been abandoned and when people had many more options economically. They did not go into porn because there was no other work. And, again, prostitution, trafficking of women is a much bigger problem (and much more ubiquitous) in areas of the world where (I'm sorry to keep doing this) porn is much more heavily curtailed. I'm not saying restrictions on porn are the reason for that (it has to do with many other social and political factors) but it remains a fact. Lots of prostitution and weed in the Netherlands, one of the most wonderful places on earth to live. Only problem is now, their altruism let in a bunch of browns who don't like weed and whores not because 'muh capitalism' but because allah says so. When they aren't raping white women. Yaaay?
Which goes to the race point. People who point to demonic forces or loss of community, or individualism, or not enough christianity are over complicating things. It happened because whites' pathological altruism caused them to feel sorry for non white people. They believed the lies about their own history, felt ashamed, allowed non white people and their treacherous allies into power and got sold down the river. There is no bigger story, overarching narrative key to all mythologies. The truth isn't sexy, it's just the truth. Case in point what's eating people today. It isn't hollowing out of community, it isn't capitalism, it isn't loss of greater meaning (or all this meta crap that is just catnip to the right wing mind) it's the lack of maneuverability brought about by the cost of living brought about by how much non white people are weighing the economy down. Very simple. The reason a whole generation lost out on the American dream is because we gave a bunch of loans to blacks. As George Orwell said, freedom means the freedom to say 2 + 2 = 4.
Hey, I guess there was a society that didn't like cooming. Airstrip One. Committed to abolishing the orgasm (literally a concept in 1984) for the sake of the party. Be my guest.
Most of the people that I talk to who are sick of the rich big dogs running our government (and bringing in crap loads of non whites) talk about good wages, affordable health care, basic income. Making sure women aren't degraded in front of a screen (we'll just take it as read that no women enjoy being in pornography although that itself is highly questionable) with cum on their face not exactly a high priority.
With regard to your point about how "it's all connected" I go back to my original point in the previous post. I have really tried with the anti porn people (and I know there are women who had a sheyat life when they were in the industry but some of them actually take responsibility and own their own sheyat and don't claim porn made their life like that) and I don't find too many who really care about the destiny of white people. Sure, many of them aren't anti white lunatics, I grant you that, but in terms of our racial survival, they don't really care. You might hit a baseball with a hammer but a bat works a helluva lot better. We have a president who banged a porn star and he's doing more for white people than anybody since Calvin freaking Coolidge. The defense rests.
Likewise! I meant more historically, but I don't disagree that other things contribute to it, too.
"But oh no tentacle porn!"
I think an average person would take more issue with ero-guro.
"That does not mean this desire should be given absolute free reign but the attempt to eradicate it has always failed and it always will fail."
That can be said about anything and everything, murder, rape, alcohol, drugs, crime, you name it - it's part of the reason why America ended up with opioid crisis; same points you're using here are used against El Salvador. And yet their policy is a success when it comes to crime. Ultimately, this is a failure of a system, lack of will, etc, which is incapable of dealing with and helping people - so many of such people, many of them regular people and/or decent people, could still be alive.
"Without a release for those urges, men are there to fight wars for corrupt oligarchs, and enact violence against women."
That's not why conflicts there are occurring, they are occurring due to different people and different systems, some outside influence as well, and the fact that most such people posses more vitality than those in the west do, regardless what other flaws they might have. Also, if you think you'd fare better, just look at Ukraine. Speaking of which, beyond pushing to legalize pornography there more recently, surrogacy is legal, and prostitution is ignored by the government.
"And I'm sorry, the whole "it's capitalism" thing just doesn't work. There are problems with capitalism, but there was a lotta porn in the soviet union and other authoritarian societies."
That's funny. Anyway, I'm not saying that porn is solely a product of it, but that's what underpins it currently and what legitimizes exploitation of people in general; that "citizens" (a very concept that's liberal by nature and, once again, what produced the current state of our societies) are seen as exploitable and interchangeable with anyone, to the extent that foreigners get prioritized, favored, etc. Pulling the blocks that underpin immigration and race will collapse the jenga tower itself. That's, again, not to say that you may not end up with some issues that are justified differently, but that'll be more on a case by case basis, and less likely to occur.
"their altruism let in a bunch of browns"
They aren't doing it out of altruism, but liberal capitalism. This doesn't seem much different than those who believe you can just reverse the clock before that was occurring and all will be fine and you won't end up in the same position you are now, when where we are now is a direct product of a particular system & ideology that serves to justify it.
"It happened because whites' pathological altruism caused them to feel sorry for non white people."
You're looking at surface level behavior, seeing the results, and disliking them, but aren't willing to trace it to the actual cause because, to be honest, you support the cause of it. Not because of this one particular outcome, but everything else that comes with it. I think, maybe it's just me, but you can like porn or prostitution or drugs or whatever - there are people on the right who do - seeing it properly as vice and without endorsing it for the rest of society.
"It isn't hollowing out of community"
Yeah, we fundamentally disagree.
"As George Orwell said"
That's boomer tier reference, sorry lol.
"talk about good wages, affordable health care, basic income"
Yeah, all of which is fundamentally irrelevant to liberalism. We've already seen a combination of this & rw politics in Poland more recently, but also before it, too. Speaking of: Poland itself imported foreigners, just a different kind, while posturing against them. Same as Italy, same as America currently. Because the issue remains the system itself.
"Making sure women aren't degraded in front of a screen (we'll just take it as read that no women enjoy being in pornography although that itself is highly questionable)"
I know, I've been around leftists. Who do you think I loathe them and find them repulsive? An average leftist would look at that Viet dude, I believe, who recently found a different person to film his execution while he's masturbating, and shrug their shoulders: "What's it to me?" Certainly, this goes back to what I've already said: Liberal capitalism, which is incapable of giving people meaning, purpose, morality, and is instead producing people like those, and it's precisely why I want it gone. But furthermore - not to repeat myself - without dealing with it, fundamentally, we'll end up in the same place we are already, and the very system is designed to benefit the ruling class while making sure people can do little to change it.
As I've said earlier: Coalitions work. Disagreement will always occur, if pro/anti porn stance puts off people, that says more about them and their insincerity on the importance of immigration; if KKK could basically platform and ally with Marcus Garvey for a common cause, there's no excuse here. There are far more people who are pro-porn and pro-immigration - I could make the same point you are making, except mine would be better bcz this is fundamentally in line with liberalism, individualism, worship of "consent" and "autonomy," - but what really matters is immigration.
"Coalitions work". Apparently not. Trump and Stephen Miller are trying to do at least something to help white people, but their fellow cabinet members seem more focused on porn bans, foreign wars, culture war BS, countersignaling supposed nazis and on and on. The public at large seem to think nons still don't have enough free sheyat, case in point the elections a month ago. Coalitions only work when they're based on tribe and you operate in ethnic self interest. You can't build a coalition with people who don't put whites first and aren't racially conscious no matter how much they hate porn. And you're point doesn't work because it isn't about anything for the left (especially now) other than dispossessing whites, hence the broad support for AV laws. In one state everyone voted for it but one effing non party affiliated lone gunman. All the crap about free sexual expression and standing up to the right wing prudes during the meese commission and fighting censorship in rock lyrics (much of which was spearheaded by Tipper effing Gore I might add) belongs to a bygone era of over 3 decades ago. They were fine to throw that out the window and caucus with bedroom policing trad boys for the chance to spy on the devil racists. It's the same mentality but for different things. And if you don't think this 'think of the children' AV crap won't be utilized to throw white advocates in the pokey you are beyond naive. Be careful what you wish for pastor friendly, you may get it.
"The most important thing is immigration". One of the few things you've said I truly agree with and I do hope and pray to almighty Baphomet that with that we might very well manage to place a bookmark within it. All the best to you and yours.
I think again you're going for this false logic of it's all connected. You can say it about anything but you're ignoring degrees. I say it's a misguided approach being anti-porn, and you basically come back with "well, maybe we should have murder allowed in a circumspect fashion" as if these things are the same. They aren't. It's ironic you bring up El Salvador, as Bukele is not going in for any of this anti-porn sheyat. No AV laws, nothing. It's about law and order. Not a crusade against lonely white boys cooming. Bukele is taking the approach I'm talking about in terms of what to focus on and you're using it as an argument against me. So, I think you lost there.
You're right about different groups, but that has nothing to do with porn. As these people who hate whites gain more power, they will likely curtail porn and replicate the hateful places they come from. Again it's ironic that you invoke Ukraine, because many people (natives as well as tourists) say it was a pretty nice place until Putin came in, killed a bunch of white people and dumped a bunch of browns there and now it's hell on earth. But as any Russian shill will tell you, the real problem was hedonism and sex tourism. Sure, bud. It's a little ironic because 'based Putin' does absolutely nothing to regulate or curtail the adult industry, yet so many of the trad boy porn ban project 2025 guys can't stop singing his praises.
Saying it's not altruism, it's capitalism ignores biology and the fundamentally important insights of people like Kevin Macdonald in his book 'Individualism and the Western Liberal Tradition'. The harsh stable ecology of northern europe selected for nurturing, smaller families and kindness to a stranger who would be white and who would freeze to death if you didn't. This is all poison in an interconnected high technology cosmopolitan imperium. You mentioned alcohol which was devastating for indians because they were not biologically adapted to it because they hadn't been in close proximity to animals and practicing intensive agriculture as we had since forever. They weren't used to booze. Whites aren't used to a racial mosaic. This is not capitalism. This is biologically driven altruism. Capitalism is a symptom of a hard working, diligent, high trust people. It didn't cause these things. The inherent nature of the people who caused capitalism caused these other things. You're putting the cart before the horse and confusing the chicken with the egg.
None of the things that I dislike are caused by porn. Many of the woke feminists who promote mutilation of boys and sexual deviance hate porn. Many of the same people who can't shutup about non whites also hate porn. That's why they work so hard to change it (unsuccessfully, with trans, rainbow, gay etc.) because to them it was a toxic male space for white boys to be perverts (this is where the trad boy feminist alliance comes from on these issues, with insufferable prigs like Thomas Fleming) so they had to recreate it in their own disgusting flaccidity inducing image. Porn did not make America go brown and the most obvious refutation is that many of the most vociferous voices for browning America were at best neutral toward porn, if not outright hostile.
"you can like porn but not endorse it for the rest of society" I could but that's known in common parlance as being a flaming hypocrite. You're basically the same at that point as those people who bemoan racism and white supremacy while doing their level best to live in the whitest places. Practice what you preach and preach what you practice.
As far as I can see, hollowing out of community is just this meta language with some cosmic spiritual moral agenda that sidesteps (though I'm not necessarily saying is a conscious attempt to redirect) from the brass tacks. In this case, number of blacks and browns. It was as the old socialists and working mens associations used to tell the christian mutual aid societies in the 19th century. These people don't need your prayers or spiritual counseling or your warning against vice, or to look to the lord, they need warm shelter, food and a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. You can hand wave it with "we'll just agree to disagree" but that just ignores the basic issue. Facts don't care about your metaphysics. 99 percent white areas of New England are the greatest place to live and virtually no one is trad. It's a waste of time.
"George Orwell = boomer tier" lazy ad hominem and a complete dodge. This is boomer is not an argument. There is a contingent of humanity which wishes to utilize the abhorrence of sex to maintain social control over a demoralized populace so that they will go along with anything to the point where they have no memory of what's come before, don't even use actual language, up is down black is white and you work until you die. Just as they are deprived of the ability to conceptualize family and privacy, they are in turn deprived of the ability to feel sexual joy and the orgasm because it would harken to a strong emotive force outside of the party. Perfectly describes the third world contingent (where sex is about punishment, not pleasure) and many on both sides of the aisle today, whom I am convinced, owing to their own mutations and mental instability, are characterized in their psychotic plans and neurotic obsessions not only by an inability to see what is good or worthwhile but a fundamental inability to experience true sexual joy.
I would recommend Ed Dutton's recent video on Hitler in this regard. Dutton is a serious race realist, though needless to say well to the right of me on other things, certainly no one's idea of a libtard. I don't mean for this to get acrimonious but you really sound like a complete ignoramus when you hand wave Orwell. "I don't read them books man". I'd dare say Orwell did more with his life and epitomized more of the suffering, adventure, trials and tribulations of a self respecting European man who has lived a life than either of us. Apparently, refraining from pornography is not this brain boost the no nut folks claim, if you are an example. I mean, it's been respectful and you seem reasonably intelligent (not that you care what I think, obviously) but if you're going to bemoan mindless hedonism, try not to be so ignorant.
You've really thrown me for a loop with this next one. You're just using the word liberalism in the same disingenuous way that many on the left do when they say 'that wasn't really communism' etc. The fight for better working conditions wasn't the liberal tradition? Universal white male suffrage in the 19th century wasn't liberalism? Trade Union movement wasn't liberalism? Your one side circumspect ahistorical (dare I say uninformed?) understanding of the word and liberalism more broadly is seriously hamstringing this discussion. And the justification for this is that the woke mind virus has spread to Poland, which was a backward retrograde country anyway. Doesn't that just prove that we all end up at the same point, because this is a white disease? Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, atheist, left, right, we've all come to the same point. It's a problem with white people not standing up for themselves as whites. Scapegoating it onto liberalism or capitalism ignores the fundamental issue, which was my original point. And it also ignores the biological reality. One might as well say capitalism made Indians alcoholics. No, silly. Their biology and genetics did that.
"Vietnam execution masturbation" LOL again the conflation and failure to compare like with like and logical leaps to justify your own priors. I'm not surprised as given the fact that liberals will justify the rape and murder of white people with "don't be racist, diversity is great" why wouldn't they justify such things, not necessarily because they like it but the programming says 'must counter signal right winger' kind of like you're doing with this anti porn crusade right here. It doesn't matter to you that it has nothing to do with men's sexual urges writ large in the aggregate, or what 99 percent of porn is, that you're making the sort of wild comparison one of these people you interacted with would make when they say 'well, if we teach out kids to be proud of their race, the next thing you know they'll be randomly slaughtering non white children in the streets' seems completely lost on you. That's how you sound right now. And you think you're on solid ground and I'm the one who needs a reality check? All I can do is shrug my shoulders and say this is what happens to people when they don't watch porn. The mass psychology of no nut. End part 1
Some substantial part of this retreat to craziness - UFOs, French hit squads, etc - is that the real problems are so monumental and the required remedies so divisive that many people simply can’t face them.
In that way it’s not dissimilar from the excesses of wokery: unfalsifiable bullsht designed to avoid facing some very unpleasant truths.
The Left is insane but the Right is retarded. The fact Charlie Kirk’s murder has lead to such conspiracy theories is proof
Much of the right is like a dog who sees a squirrel. It’s annoying.
I'll throw out another pile of horse manure that's going to hurt us down the road, the antivaccine movement. We're already seeing increases in measles and whooping cough because of declines in childhood shots. This ill thought-out campaign used to be played by left-wing suburban crunchy moms but Covid brought some conservatives on board. Did Fauchi and friends oversell the effectiveness of the Covid vaccines in a moronic plan to get more people vaccinated? Yes. But on the other hand thousands of people are not "dying suddenly." Sadly vaccine demonization has moved beyond Covid to vaccines for childhood diseases. If more kids start dying because their parents refused vaccines, there will be political carnage at the ballot box.
honestly yes, we are 5 years out from the covid vaccine iirc 90 something percent of the population is vaccinated where are the mass deaths promised ?
Do you need the answer to that question served to you on a silver platter by Fauci himself? Have you not even seen one headline about the stark rise in aggressive cancer rates among all age groups starting in 2022? Do you know anything about all cause mortality and the supposedly unexplainable trends?
Until Fauci actually faces consequences then why should people trust the CDC (which has a tranny high up)? You might just say “SCIENCE” but appeals to authority only work if the authority is trustworthy which the CDC no longer is which is why each administration will have different prescriptions
Foolish take. It's the immigrants bringing third-world diseases & living standards into our country. Don't try to tie up the ICP party with this.
The vaccines are poison. The medical industrial complex is a fraud. The fake Covid vaccines are cause turbo cancers and blood clots. No, it’s not causing a movement away from conservatives.
I'm gonna be honest...I want to see Tyler Robinson claim hes the scapegoat just to see how the ICP crowd reacts
I’m still 50/50 on if “magical thinking” is a double entendre or not
The stupid thing is that every big happening from now on is going to get the conspiracy treatment, as various podcasters pile on. This does not bode well for the Western tradition of detachment and observation, as opposed to those who are ruled by emotion and superstition.
The late, great Z Man called these people carnies. Candace is a carny. So is Nick Fuentes, and sadly Tucker is now.
Scott Greer is NOT a carny or else I would not have subscribed to him!
I don't get thee people why do they want to make politics entertaining and not just engage with it on it's terms.
Edit needed (should be “wreaking”): “Now magical thinking is wrecking havoc on the Right…”
This is exactly what I've been talking about, although I would probably go further than Greer. This is the kind of lunacy you get from trad people with repressed sexuality who have absolutely lost control over their own minds. Endless focus on the JQ, well out of proportion, and pursuing a repressive social agenda (abortion, AV laws) is a major distraction from helping white people and reducing the power of non whites. There are many people who would prefer a hedonistic, pleasure seeking society (myself included, other people on the left, who you might call the racist liberals) who still want non whites heckin gone. Building bridges with them is a much more effective use of time than allowing these people to burn everything down. Jared Taylor has said much the same thing. And their troll king is Fuentes and people like Carlson, even though the happy couple has apparently now had a falling out. The only worthwhile part of project 2025 is deportations. The rest should be done away with. It was amazing to see the usually sensible actually take this, or them seriously The constant refrain you hear from these people is that they have more in common with a non white person (who will spread violence, filth, squalor and actively wants to harm us) merely if they agree with their trad opinions on cultural issues. This is apart from the fact that trad moral crusades always exclusively focus on persecuting lonely, sexually frustrated white males, whereas child predators, rainbow people and black males can do whatever they want. This branch of the right, the "it's not race it's culture" people who say "christianity is what matters" should be utterly expunged from the movement. I'm glad greer wrote this. There also needs to be a recognition that the need to remove such people is about safeguarding whites, it isn't a cover for some zionist agenda.
TLDR: “I’m a liberal on everything but race.” Honesty is good, but these things come together - “just the tip” never stop at the tip.
In general, I think you're right, but there's a number of reasons why in this context, you're wrong. Firstly, homogenous all white societies tend to be more permissive anyway. And this happened in ancient times too, so it can't just be explained in terms of the industrial revolution. Trad is non coded and most non societies are some form of trad. Second, most of the people who are trad (not saying there aren't exceptions) are either actively anti-racist, not as concerned about race, or they care but it's one thing juggled amongst many and so it undermines their racial concerns.
Moreover, just as Kevin DeAnna and Paul Kersey recently discussed the idea where even boomers who helped to promote diversity shouldn't have to live in suffering being abused by black health care "workers" at the end of their life, white people shouldn't have to live in constant fear of non violence just because they enjoy pornography and you disapprove. I'll believe trad is the road to white identity when I stop seeing people obsessed with sexual morality and repressing sex counter signaling race. And I'll wait for the rest of my life.
I think it depends on where and when, but certainly - much of it not good either. You've also had the inverse (e.g., Augustus mandating marriage). If you look at Africa, similarly, you'll find high permissiveness, especially historically.
I don't think your characterization is correct, most of those "trad" tend to be further to the right. There's certainly Christians that come close to it, but they are more liberal and put Christianity first - e.g., Joel Berry comes to mind - and echo what you described earlier.
Regardless, I'm not arguing in favor of trad politics, I think we're beyond it especially since "trad" politics basically start and end with 1950s, nor am I interested in going back to the past, I'm noting that degeneracy of society goes hand in hand with degeneracy in approach to race. Pornography is a great example, as it exemplifies commodification and degradation of human existence & sexuality; inability & lack of desire of politicians and the economic system to help people; exploitation of women as a form of feminism/freedom, and in turn, exploitation and degeneration of men who keep the industry going, which itself has negative impact on society. If you do away with what underpins the approach to race - which is a combination of capitalism/individualism/equality/etc, or in other words, things that make people interchangeable and exploitable - you'll inevitably impact things like pornography, prostitution, promiscuity, etc, because those some values/laws/economy underpin that, too. That's the entire purpose of these politics to begin with.
With that said, immigration is certainly the primary issue of 21st century, not religion, social politics, etc. However, trying to get people to abandon the rest won't lead to more people embracing the stance on immigration, and the solution certainly isn't to be fine w/ it, but rather to restore meaning, purpose, and morality, while making coalitions w/ others on key issues, and accept that disagreement will occur on other, less currently important issues.
Thanks for your thoughtful response, but you're just wrong. Africa isn't permissive, it's just that those people are so violent, low IQ and out of control it looks that way. The punishments in Africa are quite punitive and regressive, they love them some patriarchy (FGM permissive?), the initiations for adolescence for boys are brutal, I could go on and on. Congo is almost 100 percent Christian. That says it all. Japan has their own folk religion (Shinto? Don't quote me) and it's so safe, you could get drunk in the middle of a city and a random stranger will take you home. But oh no tentacle porn! "Porn exemplifies commodification...degradation" The bottom line is this. Our sexuality was shaped by evolution for many people (but not all) in terms of domination, raw desire. That's why prostitution is the oldest profession. Many men are drawn to the idea of dominating and oh my god yes exploiting women. That does not mean this desire should be given absolute free reign but the attempt to eradicate it has always failed and it always will fail. "The idea that mutants and humans can live together is only a dream. Your foolish dream"-Magneto to Professor X.
Most of the most impoverished places on earth, where politicians have the most absolute free reign and the citizen means nothing (or there are no citizens) are also places where, surprise surprise, there is also a great deal of repression of pornography. Without a release for those urges, men are there to fight wars for corrupt oligarchs, and enact violence against women. That's another thing. I do find this concern for female exploitation a little insincere, as the areas of the world where women are the most brutalized (Africa, Middle East) also have severe restrictions on pornography. We've obviously seen in the contemporary west what happens when white hating grotesque LGBTQ freaks control our politics, groom our children. This has nothing to do with pornography as even now most pornography is an attractive white man and an attractive white woman having passionate aggressive sex. People who focus on the aberrations are like the folks who say "but sometimes white people are violent". Yeah, sometimes they are. And? It should also be noted that one of the strongest anti pornography traditions in the west comes from crazy woke women who lie about men, hate white people and want to destroy the west. Remind you of anyone?
And I'm sorry, the whole "it's capitalism" thing just doesn't work. There are problems with capitalism, but there was a lotta porn in the soviet union and other authoritarian societies. This is another just so. Capitalism had its problems (and I'm actually not a capitalist) but it's not why porn exists, this is just lazy dworkin feminist marxism. Large scale pornography in the modern western context (but don't kid yourself, it existed before) grew out of the managerial era, long after laissez faire had been abandoned and when people had many more options economically. They did not go into porn because there was no other work. And, again, prostitution, trafficking of women is a much bigger problem (and much more ubiquitous) in areas of the world where (I'm sorry to keep doing this) porn is much more heavily curtailed. I'm not saying restrictions on porn are the reason for that (it has to do with many other social and political factors) but it remains a fact. Lots of prostitution and weed in the Netherlands, one of the most wonderful places on earth to live. Only problem is now, their altruism let in a bunch of browns who don't like weed and whores not because 'muh capitalism' but because allah says so. When they aren't raping white women. Yaaay?
Which goes to the race point. People who point to demonic forces or loss of community, or individualism, or not enough christianity are over complicating things. It happened because whites' pathological altruism caused them to feel sorry for non white people. They believed the lies about their own history, felt ashamed, allowed non white people and their treacherous allies into power and got sold down the river. There is no bigger story, overarching narrative key to all mythologies. The truth isn't sexy, it's just the truth. Case in point what's eating people today. It isn't hollowing out of community, it isn't capitalism, it isn't loss of greater meaning (or all this meta crap that is just catnip to the right wing mind) it's the lack of maneuverability brought about by the cost of living brought about by how much non white people are weighing the economy down. Very simple. The reason a whole generation lost out on the American dream is because we gave a bunch of loans to blacks. As George Orwell said, freedom means the freedom to say 2 + 2 = 4.
Hey, I guess there was a society that didn't like cooming. Airstrip One. Committed to abolishing the orgasm (literally a concept in 1984) for the sake of the party. Be my guest.
Most of the people that I talk to who are sick of the rich big dogs running our government (and bringing in crap loads of non whites) talk about good wages, affordable health care, basic income. Making sure women aren't degraded in front of a screen (we'll just take it as read that no women enjoy being in pornography although that itself is highly questionable) with cum on their face not exactly a high priority.
With regard to your point about how "it's all connected" I go back to my original point in the previous post. I have really tried with the anti porn people (and I know there are women who had a sheyat life when they were in the industry but some of them actually take responsibility and own their own sheyat and don't claim porn made their life like that) and I don't find too many who really care about the destiny of white people. Sure, many of them aren't anti white lunatics, I grant you that, but in terms of our racial survival, they don't really care. You might hit a baseball with a hammer but a bat works a helluva lot better. We have a president who banged a porn star and he's doing more for white people than anybody since Calvin freaking Coolidge. The defense rests.
Likewise! I meant more historically, but I don't disagree that other things contribute to it, too.
"But oh no tentacle porn!"
I think an average person would take more issue with ero-guro.
"That does not mean this desire should be given absolute free reign but the attempt to eradicate it has always failed and it always will fail."
That can be said about anything and everything, murder, rape, alcohol, drugs, crime, you name it - it's part of the reason why America ended up with opioid crisis; same points you're using here are used against El Salvador. And yet their policy is a success when it comes to crime. Ultimately, this is a failure of a system, lack of will, etc, which is incapable of dealing with and helping people - so many of such people, many of them regular people and/or decent people, could still be alive.
"Without a release for those urges, men are there to fight wars for corrupt oligarchs, and enact violence against women."
That's not why conflicts there are occurring, they are occurring due to different people and different systems, some outside influence as well, and the fact that most such people posses more vitality than those in the west do, regardless what other flaws they might have. Also, if you think you'd fare better, just look at Ukraine. Speaking of which, beyond pushing to legalize pornography there more recently, surrogacy is legal, and prostitution is ignored by the government.
"And I'm sorry, the whole "it's capitalism" thing just doesn't work. There are problems with capitalism, but there was a lotta porn in the soviet union and other authoritarian societies."
That's funny. Anyway, I'm not saying that porn is solely a product of it, but that's what underpins it currently and what legitimizes exploitation of people in general; that "citizens" (a very concept that's liberal by nature and, once again, what produced the current state of our societies) are seen as exploitable and interchangeable with anyone, to the extent that foreigners get prioritized, favored, etc. Pulling the blocks that underpin immigration and race will collapse the jenga tower itself. That's, again, not to say that you may not end up with some issues that are justified differently, but that'll be more on a case by case basis, and less likely to occur.
"their altruism let in a bunch of browns"
They aren't doing it out of altruism, but liberal capitalism. This doesn't seem much different than those who believe you can just reverse the clock before that was occurring and all will be fine and you won't end up in the same position you are now, when where we are now is a direct product of a particular system & ideology that serves to justify it.
"It happened because whites' pathological altruism caused them to feel sorry for non white people."
You're looking at surface level behavior, seeing the results, and disliking them, but aren't willing to trace it to the actual cause because, to be honest, you support the cause of it. Not because of this one particular outcome, but everything else that comes with it. I think, maybe it's just me, but you can like porn or prostitution or drugs or whatever - there are people on the right who do - seeing it properly as vice and without endorsing it for the rest of society.
"It isn't hollowing out of community"
Yeah, we fundamentally disagree.
"As George Orwell said"
That's boomer tier reference, sorry lol.
"talk about good wages, affordable health care, basic income"
Yeah, all of which is fundamentally irrelevant to liberalism. We've already seen a combination of this & rw politics in Poland more recently, but also before it, too. Speaking of: Poland itself imported foreigners, just a different kind, while posturing against them. Same as Italy, same as America currently. Because the issue remains the system itself.
"Making sure women aren't degraded in front of a screen (we'll just take it as read that no women enjoy being in pornography although that itself is highly questionable)"
I know, I've been around leftists. Who do you think I loathe them and find them repulsive? An average leftist would look at that Viet dude, I believe, who recently found a different person to film his execution while he's masturbating, and shrug their shoulders: "What's it to me?" Certainly, this goes back to what I've already said: Liberal capitalism, which is incapable of giving people meaning, purpose, morality, and is instead producing people like those, and it's precisely why I want it gone. But furthermore - not to repeat myself - without dealing with it, fundamentally, we'll end up in the same place we are already, and the very system is designed to benefit the ruling class while making sure people can do little to change it.
As I've said earlier: Coalitions work. Disagreement will always occur, if pro/anti porn stance puts off people, that says more about them and their insincerity on the importance of immigration; if KKK could basically platform and ally with Marcus Garvey for a common cause, there's no excuse here. There are far more people who are pro-porn and pro-immigration - I could make the same point you are making, except mine would be better bcz this is fundamentally in line with liberalism, individualism, worship of "consent" and "autonomy," - but what really matters is immigration.
Part 2
"Coalitions work". Apparently not. Trump and Stephen Miller are trying to do at least something to help white people, but their fellow cabinet members seem more focused on porn bans, foreign wars, culture war BS, countersignaling supposed nazis and on and on. The public at large seem to think nons still don't have enough free sheyat, case in point the elections a month ago. Coalitions only work when they're based on tribe and you operate in ethnic self interest. You can't build a coalition with people who don't put whites first and aren't racially conscious no matter how much they hate porn. And you're point doesn't work because it isn't about anything for the left (especially now) other than dispossessing whites, hence the broad support for AV laws. In one state everyone voted for it but one effing non party affiliated lone gunman. All the crap about free sexual expression and standing up to the right wing prudes during the meese commission and fighting censorship in rock lyrics (much of which was spearheaded by Tipper effing Gore I might add) belongs to a bygone era of over 3 decades ago. They were fine to throw that out the window and caucus with bedroom policing trad boys for the chance to spy on the devil racists. It's the same mentality but for different things. And if you don't think this 'think of the children' AV crap won't be utilized to throw white advocates in the pokey you are beyond naive. Be careful what you wish for pastor friendly, you may get it.
"The most important thing is immigration". One of the few things you've said I truly agree with and I do hope and pray to almighty Baphomet that with that we might very well manage to place a bookmark within it. All the best to you and yours.
I think again you're going for this false logic of it's all connected. You can say it about anything but you're ignoring degrees. I say it's a misguided approach being anti-porn, and you basically come back with "well, maybe we should have murder allowed in a circumspect fashion" as if these things are the same. They aren't. It's ironic you bring up El Salvador, as Bukele is not going in for any of this anti-porn sheyat. No AV laws, nothing. It's about law and order. Not a crusade against lonely white boys cooming. Bukele is taking the approach I'm talking about in terms of what to focus on and you're using it as an argument against me. So, I think you lost there.
You're right about different groups, but that has nothing to do with porn. As these people who hate whites gain more power, they will likely curtail porn and replicate the hateful places they come from. Again it's ironic that you invoke Ukraine, because many people (natives as well as tourists) say it was a pretty nice place until Putin came in, killed a bunch of white people and dumped a bunch of browns there and now it's hell on earth. But as any Russian shill will tell you, the real problem was hedonism and sex tourism. Sure, bud. It's a little ironic because 'based Putin' does absolutely nothing to regulate or curtail the adult industry, yet so many of the trad boy porn ban project 2025 guys can't stop singing his praises.
Saying it's not altruism, it's capitalism ignores biology and the fundamentally important insights of people like Kevin Macdonald in his book 'Individualism and the Western Liberal Tradition'. The harsh stable ecology of northern europe selected for nurturing, smaller families and kindness to a stranger who would be white and who would freeze to death if you didn't. This is all poison in an interconnected high technology cosmopolitan imperium. You mentioned alcohol which was devastating for indians because they were not biologically adapted to it because they hadn't been in close proximity to animals and practicing intensive agriculture as we had since forever. They weren't used to booze. Whites aren't used to a racial mosaic. This is not capitalism. This is biologically driven altruism. Capitalism is a symptom of a hard working, diligent, high trust people. It didn't cause these things. The inherent nature of the people who caused capitalism caused these other things. You're putting the cart before the horse and confusing the chicken with the egg.
None of the things that I dislike are caused by porn. Many of the woke feminists who promote mutilation of boys and sexual deviance hate porn. Many of the same people who can't shutup about non whites also hate porn. That's why they work so hard to change it (unsuccessfully, with trans, rainbow, gay etc.) because to them it was a toxic male space for white boys to be perverts (this is where the trad boy feminist alliance comes from on these issues, with insufferable prigs like Thomas Fleming) so they had to recreate it in their own disgusting flaccidity inducing image. Porn did not make America go brown and the most obvious refutation is that many of the most vociferous voices for browning America were at best neutral toward porn, if not outright hostile.
"you can like porn but not endorse it for the rest of society" I could but that's known in common parlance as being a flaming hypocrite. You're basically the same at that point as those people who bemoan racism and white supremacy while doing their level best to live in the whitest places. Practice what you preach and preach what you practice.
As far as I can see, hollowing out of community is just this meta language with some cosmic spiritual moral agenda that sidesteps (though I'm not necessarily saying is a conscious attempt to redirect) from the brass tacks. In this case, number of blacks and browns. It was as the old socialists and working mens associations used to tell the christian mutual aid societies in the 19th century. These people don't need your prayers or spiritual counseling or your warning against vice, or to look to the lord, they need warm shelter, food and a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. You can hand wave it with "we'll just agree to disagree" but that just ignores the basic issue. Facts don't care about your metaphysics. 99 percent white areas of New England are the greatest place to live and virtually no one is trad. It's a waste of time.
"George Orwell = boomer tier" lazy ad hominem and a complete dodge. This is boomer is not an argument. There is a contingent of humanity which wishes to utilize the abhorrence of sex to maintain social control over a demoralized populace so that they will go along with anything to the point where they have no memory of what's come before, don't even use actual language, up is down black is white and you work until you die. Just as they are deprived of the ability to conceptualize family and privacy, they are in turn deprived of the ability to feel sexual joy and the orgasm because it would harken to a strong emotive force outside of the party. Perfectly describes the third world contingent (where sex is about punishment, not pleasure) and many on both sides of the aisle today, whom I am convinced, owing to their own mutations and mental instability, are characterized in their psychotic plans and neurotic obsessions not only by an inability to see what is good or worthwhile but a fundamental inability to experience true sexual joy.
I would recommend Ed Dutton's recent video on Hitler in this regard. Dutton is a serious race realist, though needless to say well to the right of me on other things, certainly no one's idea of a libtard. I don't mean for this to get acrimonious but you really sound like a complete ignoramus when you hand wave Orwell. "I don't read them books man". I'd dare say Orwell did more with his life and epitomized more of the suffering, adventure, trials and tribulations of a self respecting European man who has lived a life than either of us. Apparently, refraining from pornography is not this brain boost the no nut folks claim, if you are an example. I mean, it's been respectful and you seem reasonably intelligent (not that you care what I think, obviously) but if you're going to bemoan mindless hedonism, try not to be so ignorant.
You've really thrown me for a loop with this next one. You're just using the word liberalism in the same disingenuous way that many on the left do when they say 'that wasn't really communism' etc. The fight for better working conditions wasn't the liberal tradition? Universal white male suffrage in the 19th century wasn't liberalism? Trade Union movement wasn't liberalism? Your one side circumspect ahistorical (dare I say uninformed?) understanding of the word and liberalism more broadly is seriously hamstringing this discussion. And the justification for this is that the woke mind virus has spread to Poland, which was a backward retrograde country anyway. Doesn't that just prove that we all end up at the same point, because this is a white disease? Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, atheist, left, right, we've all come to the same point. It's a problem with white people not standing up for themselves as whites. Scapegoating it onto liberalism or capitalism ignores the fundamental issue, which was my original point. And it also ignores the biological reality. One might as well say capitalism made Indians alcoholics. No, silly. Their biology and genetics did that.
"Vietnam execution masturbation" LOL again the conflation and failure to compare like with like and logical leaps to justify your own priors. I'm not surprised as given the fact that liberals will justify the rape and murder of white people with "don't be racist, diversity is great" why wouldn't they justify such things, not necessarily because they like it but the programming says 'must counter signal right winger' kind of like you're doing with this anti porn crusade right here. It doesn't matter to you that it has nothing to do with men's sexual urges writ large in the aggregate, or what 99 percent of porn is, that you're making the sort of wild comparison one of these people you interacted with would make when they say 'well, if we teach out kids to be proud of their race, the next thing you know they'll be randomly slaughtering non white children in the streets' seems completely lost on you. That's how you sound right now. And you think you're on solid ground and I'm the one who needs a reality check? All I can do is shrug my shoulders and say this is what happens to people when they don't watch porn. The mass psychology of no nut. End part 1
Lots of TYPOS today Scott!
It doesn't matter if your observations about reality or politics is 1:1 accurate with the world if you refuse to act.
Revealed preference implies the American Right wants a third party to intervene and liberate them.
“why mass immigration is a disaster”
Hanania claims the predictions of disaster have not borne out, e.g., crime is down. What are your metrics?
Some substantial part of this retreat to craziness - UFOs, French hit squads, etc - is that the real problems are so monumental and the required remedies so divisive that many people simply can’t face them.
In that way it’s not dissimilar from the excesses of wokery: unfalsifiable bullsht designed to avoid facing some very unpleasant truths.
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