I agree with the article in general, even though I am a "Boomer". The ugly fact is that Democrats (and some Republicans) pile on the property taxes to finance the expansion of government and to fund their pet projects. Most people understand the need to fund police, the fire department, roads, etc. They do not want to fund social engineering projects or giveaways to Democrat Party voting blocs. Property taxes should not be eliminated but they must be controlled to corrupt politicians do not use other people's property as their personal piggybank.
I think this gets at the heart of the issue for most conservatives. We have a leadership class that is squandering our public resources. So naturally, people don't want to provide resources to that project. The real answer is that we need good leaders who use our resources well, not that we should have no public resources (as if that were possible).
Need more right-wingers to get involved in local politics to make sure the money is being spent wisely. I'm going to make an effort to try and start going to city council meetings.
I think the waste and abuse are the issue. Public schools are a huge offender on this front. It also doesn’t help that poor immigrants (domestic and foreign) flood communities and use up services reserved for people who paid their fair share. They generally cost more to educate, protect, and clean up after. This is where the bulk of our taxes go.
You sound like Ned Flanders who happily credits taxes for sunshine and people who don’t want to work. I think Americans understand that public devices cost money, but are angry that their taxes (and HOA fees) are so high. We need more efficient programs, more transparency, and far fewer people bilking the system. Otherwise, yes, I might just say we should go our separate ways and pay for this stuff privately.
You mistake fraud abuse and wasteful spending outrage with wanting total elimination. Look at nashville. We passed a proposition 30 yrs ago that property tax increases be voted on by the populace before it went into effect. The administrations here have repeatedly used a shell game to avoid that: they raise the assessments, drop the mean rate (ordered by state statute) and then raise the rate later to what it was before re-assessment, claiming they have not raised the rate. This has gone on for decades now. The council voted its members (and families!!) permanent medical insurance, even when they leave office, out of property tax funds. The new billion dollar stadium is another example of bilking property taxpayers, which is also lied about through creative bullshit. We have an avowed left wing mayor with zero experience managing ANYTHING, at the helm, with a council that always has clipped wings to reign in a mayor of any stripe.
School systems typically account for 80% of property tax expenditures , and as you imply, look at that for a perfect example of wasted funds.
So what we want is not irresponsibility for civic stability and good, we want accountability and some measure of control. It isn't happening, so you have Fire and Police personnel that cannot afford to live in the nashville environs. You failed to mention that California actually has a means of controlling property taxes, and their self immolation isnt due to that mechanism, as leftists continually claim. We need something, and the problem is not 'fuck you Ive got mine'.
A reason why nice homes in red state metros have exorbitant property taxes is 1) the states (TN, TX, FL) don't have an state income tax, thus localities try to compensate by hiking property taxes 2) the value of these homes have grown exponentially over the last few years as people want to move to these areas.
The people are unlikely to ever vote for property tax increases, especially in the South.
Nashville's government sucks but the libs there voted for it.
What's wrong with the south having lower school budgets? Does spending $40,000 per kid per year help NY get better education?
I get $8k in a voucher here in Florida and its worth more to me then the hugely expensive norther public schools are worth. I say keep taxes low and budgets sane.
Well, they certainly did vote for that transportation tax last year. Overwhelmingly:60+%. And that was with NO relevant information as to how that tax revenue would be spent . So I disagree with you that a relevant and appropriate tax increase would not be voted for under any circumstance. And no, it is not just "nice homes" , it is all homes being taxed exhorbitantly. You need to look at the neighborhood distribution of median tax rises last year. This is on top of the Cooper tax rise of over 30% that made national news.You may just be buying into that nonsense in the glossy colored brochure that comes with your tax statement, blaring the notion that property taxes are the "lifeblood" of your community. I think you obviously do . I also think there is a better way to control the spending on useless , inappropriate and overpriced endeavors undertaken by these 'managers'- like health insurance for themselves, and stadia.
I think part of this is to keep in mind the split between the school tax from the local property tax. Certainly there is flab in budgets to trim to keep property taxes reasonable to cover sewage, maintenance, etc. But school budgets are out of control in my blue state. Budget votes are rubber stamps basically (many capital votes happen in the winter when seniors snowbird) and are covering jumbotrons and underwater cameras in olympic pools. Why should a couple lose their home they've lived in for decades if they can't cover a school tax?
Also, even in high tax states the roads suck, so that isn't a great argument to use. They would be better if only we taxed MORE is a liberal mindset.
It is debating whether to cut property taxes or sales taxes with that surplus.
It seems clear to me that cutting property taxes is the better of those two options. Sales taxes impact consumption and in the case of Florida are often paid by tourists. Property tax changes would probably be done by increasing the homestead exemption, which would give direct tax relieve to middle class homeowners who live in Florida as their primary residence.
Florida has universal school choice paid for through school vouchers. I send my kids to a private school with those vouchers.
Property taxes have become a way for the local teachers unions to fund bloated school budgets. I don't see this as "pro-social" but union graft. Because of the SALT deduction many districts were able to raise property taxes to insane levels to fund local school budget bloat because the federal government was subsidizing 32-37% of it. That's how you get NY spending $40,000 per kid per year on shitty schools.
Its kind of similar to the government funding so much of Medicaid expansion that states will tax their own medical providers because the feds cover 90% of the tax and they see it as a way to steal money from the feds for their state.
So basically I think this analysis of yours is really off.
I usually agree with your posts but not this one. While I acknowledge lack of community as an issue I think it important to ask why that is. One reason is too many cities no longer provide adequate police protection. Another is a huge swath of LA burned to the ground largely as a result of poor city and state fire prevention and fighting mechanisms. That is the rankest mismanagement. Another is that schools under the management of the federal Depaftment of Education have failed. No other word for it. Another is that roads, and bridges, are hazardous in many, many areas. Personally I think there is a sweet spot between rugged individualism and government management of essential services. That is when the social contract works well. But we are wa-a-a-ay down the road from that. We have at the federal level a massively bloated largely unaccountable bureaucracy that is incapable of effective management. And while I doubt the trickle down theory of benefits or prosperity the federal management operating procedures certainly have trickled down to the state and local level (I think of this as the blue model - zero recognition of the issue just tax and throw money at problem as if money grows on trees). States now privatize prisons and foster care. Foster care! As for the local level, my sweet county is organized into precincts and a commissioner elected from each precinct. That commissioner had his or her own road crews. Roads were well maintained. But then the "modernization" of local politics was sold as a good thing (probably because we were electing people who did not know what an asphalt spreader was much less how one worked) and a county-wide road bureaucracy was established. The roads are now in a perpetual state of disrepair. Lastly, I am a boomer. Because I was not one of the drop-out and turn-on kind I have innate respect for the social contract. But I also earned mine. It is mine. I do not owe it to anyone. Whether I choose to use it for the benefit of others is up to me. That is what private ownership of property means. And every time I see a comment whining about how easy boomers had it (remember Vietnam ass*#×e or 18% mortgage rates or what having a fiat currency has meant to the US dollar? ) or worse demanding redistribution of their wealth (which really is just calling for their death) my spine stiffens. I. Will.Be.
Property taxes are a huge problem in Texas because that's how localities fund schools. Roughly $.60 of every dollar in property taxes goes to schools, and when they need more they propose and always pass bonds, "for the children". Our small local school (300 kids K-12) has a $20 million football stadium and a $10 million basketball gym - schools indeed. Paying what amounts to 1-2% of your property's value, every year, is robbery, period.
I think this article misses the point, conflating antisocial Lolbert and Ancap sentiments with the average American grumbling about his tax bill. "Taxation is theft" silliness aside, the most common complaints I see regarding property taxes are of two flavors: 1) the progressive structure of a tax ostensibly levied to pay for ones -relatively- equal share of services provided; and 2) the disproportionate and adverse affect they have on those with fixed income. I would certainly advocate for the replacement of these taxes with higher consumption taxes, or supplementation with a 'Public Service Fee' that would affect non-property-owners as well.
I agree with the article in general, even though I am a "Boomer". The ugly fact is that Democrats (and some Republicans) pile on the property taxes to finance the expansion of government and to fund their pet projects. Most people understand the need to fund police, the fire department, roads, etc. They do not want to fund social engineering projects or giveaways to Democrat Party voting blocs. Property taxes should not be eliminated but they must be controlled to corrupt politicians do not use other people's property as their personal piggybank.
I think this gets at the heart of the issue for most conservatives. We have a leadership class that is squandering our public resources. So naturally, people don't want to provide resources to that project. The real answer is that we need good leaders who use our resources well, not that we should have no public resources (as if that were possible).
Need more right-wingers to get involved in local politics to make sure the money is being spent wisely. I'm going to make an effort to try and start going to city council meetings.
I think the waste and abuse are the issue. Public schools are a huge offender on this front. It also doesn’t help that poor immigrants (domestic and foreign) flood communities and use up services reserved for people who paid their fair share. They generally cost more to educate, protect, and clean up after. This is where the bulk of our taxes go.
You sound like Ned Flanders who happily credits taxes for sunshine and people who don’t want to work. I think Americans understand that public devices cost money, but are angry that their taxes (and HOA fees) are so high. We need more efficient programs, more transparency, and far fewer people bilking the system. Otherwise, yes, I might just say we should go our separate ways and pay for this stuff privately.
You mistake fraud abuse and wasteful spending outrage with wanting total elimination. Look at nashville. We passed a proposition 30 yrs ago that property tax increases be voted on by the populace before it went into effect. The administrations here have repeatedly used a shell game to avoid that: they raise the assessments, drop the mean rate (ordered by state statute) and then raise the rate later to what it was before re-assessment, claiming they have not raised the rate. This has gone on for decades now. The council voted its members (and families!!) permanent medical insurance, even when they leave office, out of property tax funds. The new billion dollar stadium is another example of bilking property taxpayers, which is also lied about through creative bullshit. We have an avowed left wing mayor with zero experience managing ANYTHING, at the helm, with a council that always has clipped wings to reign in a mayor of any stripe.
School systems typically account for 80% of property tax expenditures , and as you imply, look at that for a perfect example of wasted funds.
So what we want is not irresponsibility for civic stability and good, we want accountability and some measure of control. It isn't happening, so you have Fire and Police personnel that cannot afford to live in the nashville environs. You failed to mention that California actually has a means of controlling property taxes, and their self immolation isnt due to that mechanism, as leftists continually claim. We need something, and the problem is not 'fuck you Ive got mine'.
A reason why nice homes in red state metros have exorbitant property taxes is 1) the states (TN, TX, FL) don't have an state income tax, thus localities try to compensate by hiking property taxes 2) the value of these homes have grown exponentially over the last few years as people want to move to these areas.
The people are unlikely to ever vote for property tax increases, especially in the South.
Nashville's government sucks but the libs there voted for it.
What's wrong with the south having lower school budgets? Does spending $40,000 per kid per year help NY get better education?
I get $8k in a voucher here in Florida and its worth more to me then the hugely expensive norther public schools are worth. I say keep taxes low and budgets sane.
Well, they certainly did vote for that transportation tax last year. Overwhelmingly:60+%. And that was with NO relevant information as to how that tax revenue would be spent . So I disagree with you that a relevant and appropriate tax increase would not be voted for under any circumstance. And no, it is not just "nice homes" , it is all homes being taxed exhorbitantly. You need to look at the neighborhood distribution of median tax rises last year. This is on top of the Cooper tax rise of over 30% that made national news.You may just be buying into that nonsense in the glossy colored brochure that comes with your tax statement, blaring the notion that property taxes are the "lifeblood" of your community. I think you obviously do . I also think there is a better way to control the spending on useless , inappropriate and overpriced endeavors undertaken by these 'managers'- like health insurance for themselves, and stadia.
I think part of this is to keep in mind the split between the school tax from the local property tax. Certainly there is flab in budgets to trim to keep property taxes reasonable to cover sewage, maintenance, etc. But school budgets are out of control in my blue state. Budget votes are rubber stamps basically (many capital votes happen in the winter when seniors snowbird) and are covering jumbotrons and underwater cameras in olympic pools. Why should a couple lose their home they've lived in for decades if they can't cover a school tax?
Also, even in high tax states the roads suck, so that isn't a great argument to use. They would be better if only we taxed MORE is a liberal mindset.
Florida currently has a huge budget surplus.
It is debating whether to cut property taxes or sales taxes with that surplus.
It seems clear to me that cutting property taxes is the better of those two options. Sales taxes impact consumption and in the case of Florida are often paid by tourists. Property tax changes would probably be done by increasing the homestead exemption, which would give direct tax relieve to middle class homeowners who live in Florida as their primary residence.
Florida has universal school choice paid for through school vouchers. I send my kids to a private school with those vouchers.
Property taxes have become a way for the local teachers unions to fund bloated school budgets. I don't see this as "pro-social" but union graft. Because of the SALT deduction many districts were able to raise property taxes to insane levels to fund local school budget bloat because the federal government was subsidizing 32-37% of it. That's how you get NY spending $40,000 per kid per year on shitty schools.
Its kind of similar to the government funding so much of Medicaid expansion that states will tax their own medical providers because the feds cover 90% of the tax and they see it as a way to steal money from the feds for their state.
So basically I think this analysis of yours is really off.
I usually agree with your posts but not this one. While I acknowledge lack of community as an issue I think it important to ask why that is. One reason is too many cities no longer provide adequate police protection. Another is a huge swath of LA burned to the ground largely as a result of poor city and state fire prevention and fighting mechanisms. That is the rankest mismanagement. Another is that schools under the management of the federal Depaftment of Education have failed. No other word for it. Another is that roads, and bridges, are hazardous in many, many areas. Personally I think there is a sweet spot between rugged individualism and government management of essential services. That is when the social contract works well. But we are wa-a-a-ay down the road from that. We have at the federal level a massively bloated largely unaccountable bureaucracy that is incapable of effective management. And while I doubt the trickle down theory of benefits or prosperity the federal management operating procedures certainly have trickled down to the state and local level (I think of this as the blue model - zero recognition of the issue just tax and throw money at problem as if money grows on trees). States now privatize prisons and foster care. Foster care! As for the local level, my sweet county is organized into precincts and a commissioner elected from each precinct. That commissioner had his or her own road crews. Roads were well maintained. But then the "modernization" of local politics was sold as a good thing (probably because we were electing people who did not know what an asphalt spreader was much less how one worked) and a county-wide road bureaucracy was established. The roads are now in a perpetual state of disrepair. Lastly, I am a boomer. Because I was not one of the drop-out and turn-on kind I have innate respect for the social contract. But I also earned mine. It is mine. I do not owe it to anyone. Whether I choose to use it for the benefit of others is up to me. That is what private ownership of property means. And every time I see a comment whining about how easy boomers had it (remember Vietnam ass*#×e or 18% mortgage rates or what having a fiat currency has meant to the US dollar? ) or worse demanding redistribution of their wealth (which really is just calling for their death) my spine stiffens. I. Will.Be.
Damned. And I do not intend for that to happen.
Property taxes are a huge problem in Texas because that's how localities fund schools. Roughly $.60 of every dollar in property taxes goes to schools, and when they need more they propose and always pass bonds, "for the children". Our small local school (300 kids K-12) has a $20 million football stadium and a $10 million basketball gym - schools indeed. Paying what amounts to 1-2% of your property's value, every year, is robbery, period.
I think this article misses the point, conflating antisocial Lolbert and Ancap sentiments with the average American grumbling about his tax bill. "Taxation is theft" silliness aside, the most common complaints I see regarding property taxes are of two flavors: 1) the progressive structure of a tax ostensibly levied to pay for ones -relatively- equal share of services provided; and 2) the disproportionate and adverse affect they have on those with fixed income. I would certainly advocate for the replacement of these taxes with higher consumption taxes, or supplementation with a 'Public Service Fee' that would affect non-property-owners as well.
I am at the frontlines of this debate in municipal civil infrastructure. Thank you.