If you define your group by victimhood, it loses meaning when your group starts to regain power. Look at what happened with ICE. The illegal immigrants and their defenders were "the victims" of law enforcement, and many people lost the will to deport.
Useless nonsense. Appeals to meritocracy will get you an elite of Asians.
All groups in conflict emphasize their grievances to rally people to their cause. It is profoundly ignorant to dismiss this as "Victimhood culture". The term "Victimhood culture" is the PC name for what is very obviously just the politics of a coalition of aggrieved minorities working together with an anti-White agenda. The term rose to prominence when it did because anti-White Cultural Marxism started being taken seriously by a much larger proportion of the population when the internet started radicalizing people, beyond just the feminists and Jewish academics who took Cultural Marxist studies in University, and cucks wanted a name for it that didn't mention its explicitly anti-White nature.
Combatting this with appeals to meritocracy or stoic self-reliance is self-defeating, as you are not radicalizing your own side in equal proportion. Telling White people to forego their best weapon, not look back in anger, and attempt to look cool and stoic in the face of genocide is ethnic suicide.
It's not persuasive? It was persuasive enough to get White liberals to side against their own genetic interests and root for their own race's genocide. The proportion of White people who would naturally inclined to White grievance instead of otherized grievances is likely to be larger, not smaller, and if it weren't for the internet being censored it would be well on its way already. In fact, you wouldn't be writing this argument if it wasn't persuasive, you are responding precisely because you saw it has captivated a lot of minds.
Freedom of speech on twitter is bringing back grievance mongers of our own. It is a massive win.
Nothing fosters identity politics like a siege mentality, and in our case it is also just true so we have the weight of evidence on our side.
You've either internalized stereotypical Cuckservative anti-PC arguments, or you're intentionally subversive.
The key to Victimhood Culture having a powerful and sympathetic 3rd party to appeal to. It doesn’t work without that partner. Race-cucked white men, AWFULs and ethnic Jews provided that party.
Left wing ideology, which combined a dialectic of oppressor-oppressed with the concept of a revolutionary vanguard, was made to order for this set-up, which is why it has proved so irresistible.
Given the rise of the Jewish elite to the commanding heights of our society, it was perfect evolutionary strategy. This new post-Sixties elite were extraordinarily sensitive to oppression — it was their identity — and were thus very open to demonstrating their moral right to rule by championing the oppressed against the white majority in this victimhood framework.
Victimhood culture itself must be destroyed. But that means dethroning the group which makes it possible.
A fully positive approach by itself cannot win. There’s a need to find a scapegoat, a locus for the condign rage and hate of white people. And this is even more important when the scapegoat is actually the villain.
There is value to using the machinery the left built for litigating discrimination to serve white people but not to adopt the inner values of victimhood.
I mostly agree here, and think that the criticisms of Rufo from identitarians are less than helpful, especially when the same people are defending the likes of Fuentes and Carlson on account of their anti-establishment bona fides, when they, unlike Rufo, are as anti-white as anyone on the left at this point. However, I do think the individualist boot strap culture is also a trap to be avoided, as it leaves whites vulnerable, isolated and only ensures the institutional capture which we see all around us. To the extent that it's reversed, it isn't because whites dug their heels in and figured out how to make capitalism work for them, it's because they've finally, tentatively, began to see themselves in collective terms and yes part of that is a sense of victimization. You may say it won't work for whites (and there are congenital predilections which most likely confirm this analysis) but there were many who never thought the right would ever be as pro white as it is now. If there is an open acknowledgement of all the anti-white discrimination, or a discussion of the open calls for white genocide, or the system's active encouragement of alienation and at best indifference to (if not outright celebration) of white deaths of despair, or all the services, privileges, helping hands denied to whites afforded to everyone else, is that an embrace of victim culture. And if it is and it works, who the hell cares?
I think a more honest assessment would not be to decry victim culture, but rather to point out that, because of the ecology they evolved in, whites are incapable of defending their collective interests. Hand waiving such behavior as 'victim culture' makes that unfortunate reality less embarrassing, but not any less true or painfully obvious.
Big agree, it just doesn’t work for non-libtarded Whites & rightfully so. And if the victim is White, it’s usually the White libtard that heaping out the most scorn for the victim.
Although, there is something to be said for moral framing, righteous indignation, portraying yourself as the aggrieved underdog etc. This has had appeal across all cultures throughout history as far as I can tell. Even naked power politics between nations is usually framed in terms of oppressor/oppressed, even if it’s total bullshit.
Used the right way, facts about white male persecution in our society can help to undermine or dismiss other victimhood claims. Ideally this would be followed up with statements emphasizing that we are still not victims despite getting worse treatment than the protected classes, or other such rhetoric. Essentially, 'You took your best shot and failed, better luck next time bro.'
I've found that the successful white guys I know joke/complain (only occasionally) about how DEI prevents *further* success, (example being a prestigious law student nonetheless aware he would have been accepted by Harvard if he were black.) Seems like the safest tone to strike in this dialogue: you can still be successful, but your success is nonetheless unfairly hindered.
I’ve been thinking about this recently; it even extends to the general conspiracy-right, where the idea is that we are all just cogs in the Epstein machine or something similar.
A noticeable result of adopting oppression & persecution as a virtue or as justification for a cause is how collectivists, for example, refer to themselves as “goyim” & to their enemies as “elite.”
Framing everything in such a way where the collective masses are automatically “good” & a small but powerful or masterful minority is automatically “bad” means that the movement’s cause is based on envy, or Ressentiment. It creates an inferiority complex which depends on your group being victimized by X, thus making it impossible for that group to “overcome themselves “ since there is such internalized reliance on subjugation to validate your group’s own identity & existence.
In reality it is often the most exceptional individuals who are held back, or brought down by the lower standards of the crowd.
It is the instinct of weeds to suffocate a flower.
“content creator known for his illustrations about his dating woes” is probably one of Scott’s best sentences
hoe math just gets crazier and crazier
Idk much about him, but he is clearly deeply mentally ill and should log off X
We should strike a grand bargain that sees Rufo enslaved as a Panda Express manager.
‘Victim Culture’ is a made up term. All politics is grievance and identity politics. Full stop. You’re beyond useless. You’re subversive.
Grievance and identity politics are made up terms too. Victim culture is just describing a particular kind of identity/grievance politics.
If you define your group by victimhood, it loses meaning when your group starts to regain power. Look at what happened with ICE. The illegal immigrants and their defenders were "the victims" of law enforcement, and many people lost the will to deport.
Hoe Math is funny sometimes but if you listen to him talk he is clearly a deeply depressed and maladjusted individual. Needs to go fix his life.
Useless nonsense. Appeals to meritocracy will get you an elite of Asians.
All groups in conflict emphasize their grievances to rally people to their cause. It is profoundly ignorant to dismiss this as "Victimhood culture". The term "Victimhood culture" is the PC name for what is very obviously just the politics of a coalition of aggrieved minorities working together with an anti-White agenda. The term rose to prominence when it did because anti-White Cultural Marxism started being taken seriously by a much larger proportion of the population when the internet started radicalizing people, beyond just the feminists and Jewish academics who took Cultural Marxist studies in University, and cucks wanted a name for it that didn't mention its explicitly anti-White nature.
Combatting this with appeals to meritocracy or stoic self-reliance is self-defeating, as you are not radicalizing your own side in equal proportion. Telling White people to forego their best weapon, not look back in anger, and attempt to look cool and stoic in the face of genocide is ethnic suicide.
It's not persuasive? It was persuasive enough to get White liberals to side against their own genetic interests and root for their own race's genocide. The proportion of White people who would naturally inclined to White grievance instead of otherized grievances is likely to be larger, not smaller, and if it weren't for the internet being censored it would be well on its way already. In fact, you wouldn't be writing this argument if it wasn't persuasive, you are responding precisely because you saw it has captivated a lot of minds.
Freedom of speech on twitter is bringing back grievance mongers of our own. It is a massive win.
Nothing fosters identity politics like a siege mentality, and in our case it is also just true so we have the weight of evidence on our side.
You've either internalized stereotypical Cuckservative anti-PC arguments, or you're intentionally subversive.
The key to Victimhood Culture having a powerful and sympathetic 3rd party to appeal to. It doesn’t work without that partner. Race-cucked white men, AWFULs and ethnic Jews provided that party.
Left wing ideology, which combined a dialectic of oppressor-oppressed with the concept of a revolutionary vanguard, was made to order for this set-up, which is why it has proved so irresistible.
Given the rise of the Jewish elite to the commanding heights of our society, it was perfect evolutionary strategy. This new post-Sixties elite were extraordinarily sensitive to oppression — it was their identity — and were thus very open to demonstrating their moral right to rule by championing the oppressed against the white majority in this victimhood framework.
Victimhood culture itself must be destroyed. But that means dethroning the group which makes it possible.
A fully positive approach by itself cannot win. There’s a need to find a scapegoat, a locus for the condign rage and hate of white people. And this is even more important when the scapegoat is actually the villain.
The time to stop "Victimhood Culture" is after the Enabling Act.
And even then, you should still be blasting such propaganda to Whites in other countries.
He's just saying that it won't be rhetorically effective with normies that you need to vote, that's all. You're overreacting.
Is complaining about White people expressing discontent in a way that you deem declassee really the highest possible priority right now?
There is value to using the machinery the left built for litigating discrimination to serve white people but not to adopt the inner values of victimhood.
I mostly agree here, and think that the criticisms of Rufo from identitarians are less than helpful, especially when the same people are defending the likes of Fuentes and Carlson on account of their anti-establishment bona fides, when they, unlike Rufo, are as anti-white as anyone on the left at this point. However, I do think the individualist boot strap culture is also a trap to be avoided, as it leaves whites vulnerable, isolated and only ensures the institutional capture which we see all around us. To the extent that it's reversed, it isn't because whites dug their heels in and figured out how to make capitalism work for them, it's because they've finally, tentatively, began to see themselves in collective terms and yes part of that is a sense of victimization. You may say it won't work for whites (and there are congenital predilections which most likely confirm this analysis) but there were many who never thought the right would ever be as pro white as it is now. If there is an open acknowledgement of all the anti-white discrimination, or a discussion of the open calls for white genocide, or the system's active encouragement of alienation and at best indifference to (if not outright celebration) of white deaths of despair, or all the services, privileges, helping hands denied to whites afforded to everyone else, is that an embrace of victim culture. And if it is and it works, who the hell cares?
I think a more honest assessment would not be to decry victim culture, but rather to point out that, because of the ecology they evolved in, whites are incapable of defending their collective interests. Hand waiving such behavior as 'victim culture' makes that unfortunate reality less embarrassing, but not any less true or painfully obvious.
Big agree, it just doesn’t work for non-libtarded Whites & rightfully so. And if the victim is White, it’s usually the White libtard that heaping out the most scorn for the victim.
Although, there is something to be said for moral framing, righteous indignation, portraying yourself as the aggrieved underdog etc. This has had appeal across all cultures throughout history as far as I can tell. Even naked power politics between nations is usually framed in terms of oppressor/oppressed, even if it’s total bullshit.
BTW, The dude who used to go by American Krogan wrote about your interaction with hoe_math too. https://wilhemivorsson.substack.com/p/a-note-on-why-victimhood-politics
Used the right way, facts about white male persecution in our society can help to undermine or dismiss other victimhood claims. Ideally this would be followed up with statements emphasizing that we are still not victims despite getting worse treatment than the protected classes, or other such rhetoric. Essentially, 'You took your best shot and failed, better luck next time bro.'
I've found that the successful white guys I know joke/complain (only occasionally) about how DEI prevents *further* success, (example being a prestigious law student nonetheless aware he would have been accepted by Harvard if he were black.) Seems like the safest tone to strike in this dialogue: you can still be successful, but your success is nonetheless unfairly hindered.
I’ve been thinking about this recently; it even extends to the general conspiracy-right, where the idea is that we are all just cogs in the Epstein machine or something similar.
A noticeable result of adopting oppression & persecution as a virtue or as justification for a cause is how collectivists, for example, refer to themselves as “goyim” & to their enemies as “elite.”
Framing everything in such a way where the collective masses are automatically “good” & a small but powerful or masterful minority is automatically “bad” means that the movement’s cause is based on envy, or Ressentiment. It creates an inferiority complex which depends on your group being victimized by X, thus making it impossible for that group to “overcome themselves “ since there is such internalized reliance on subjugation to validate your group’s own identity & existence.
In reality it is often the most exceptional individuals who are held back, or brought down by the lower standards of the crowd.
It is the instinct of weeds to suffocate a flower.