I think more than being nostalgic, a key feature of Conservatism is pessimism. Yesterday was always better and the walls are closing in today. Most Conservative commentators say something to effect of, "Listen to me! I won't solve any problem, but I'll make sure you notice the crap around us and you can get real upset!"
Then there's the Candace O-level of commentators, in which it's not only falling apart, but supernatural forces are at play.
Matt Walsh, though he makes good points, is an Olympian standard of a Conservative. I don't like these people in general. I don't see the point in politics if it just makes you upset.
I have seen many on the Right say it is absolutely shocking that many of their old suburban grade schools are now only between 10% to 20% White. Many also have a demographic nostalgia for the 90s and 2000s.
Actual romanticism is, if not always accurate, very useful. It normally calls to mind great virtues and deeds to emulate in our own way for this time. Nostalgia is just gay and useless.
Yeah as someone who was actually in middle/high school in that time, it sucked, especially if you were genuinely conservative. Eleven, twelve, thirteen year olds were obsessed with sex and would bully you for being a virgin or not talking about sex constantly. Everything was about rap music, absolutely everything, including for whites. Every day there were a dozen people around you just compulsively muttering rap lyrics. The culture was extremely trashy and vulgar. The comedies weren't funny but you were supposed to pretend that Seth Rogen-style "dude weed lmao" and people just talking about something sexual was hilarious.
As for "our" politics it was horrible. You were a neocon, you were some kind of goofy libertarian, or you were a smarmy Jon Stewart/Colbert watcher + New Atheist. There was no in between and there was no opportunity for anything resembling what the online right is into today.
I do have a lot of nostalgia for Xbox and Linkin Park now, but largely because I didn't have a lot of friends at the time (or the opportunity to hang out with them) and I missed that. Also because looking back, in some cases those things were a lot more sincere and high quality than what we have now. But Scott is absolutely right, there's no Retvrn to Evropa going on there.
Growing up in the 90s, sexual pressure from women was not something I was prepared to deal with. Hook up culture is one of the many things the 00s gave us that can die screaming in hell.
I think it’s more that 2007 was the last “normal” year, so to speak. Pre-recession, good, new media still being released, iPhone just invented, Facebook first spreads to non-college students, last year of replacement rate births for White Americans
Maybe a lot of woke features will under go this. The typical woke fashion choices like dyed hair and piercings are becoming more common in rural America as they kind of fall out of vogue among EHC. I know of someone who is a dyed hair fat pierced non binary goblin straight out of tumble but she lives with her mom in a trailer park not on a college campus.
People in general have no clue about time or when things happen, only basing recent history on vague recollections and garbled pop culture references. So it is frustrating with reactions to a video like this, but not surprising.
My question is, "We want something better to dream of" ... like what? What does the future we want look like?
As someone who was hipster adjacent 2007-2012 I have a real soft spot for the movement and its ethos… a love of the local, excellence in craft, music and style that leaned ironic but ultimately prioritized beauty and sincerity. But — and this is important! The right’s characterization of “the hipster” as an artifact of white culture isn’t entirely accurate. In the sunbelt, at least, “chipsters” (Chicano hipsters and emos) were a huge part of the movement and were involved in a lot of immigrant rights organizing, which has since evolved into the democratic machine in the region. I kid you not when I say that Arizona is purple now because a bunch of Anglo and Latino kids hung out at The Format shows and drank PBR together 15-20 years ago.
The big race moment of the 00s was a teacher calling a student 'nigga' after the student said it to him. Compared to 2010s BLM and 90s Rodney King/OJ it was a post racial paradise although a large part of this was the gay marriage push.
Question to the other readers: if it were actually possible to RETVRN to a particular year (and then, presumably, take a different turning from that point onwards), what year would you choose?
If we're making a practical and recent course correction, go back to 1972 and prevent the Watergate coup.
If we're getting REALLY ambitious, go back to 1619 and start sinking slave ships until they get the hint. "Leave 'em on the beach, fellas, you've no idea what you're starting."
Hard disagree with pretty much all of Greer's takes here. For most people, as opposed to some self proclaimed counter elite (which as Scott would rightly argue, they only think they are) the mundane is the most important and enduring aspect of people's lives, whether in ancient or modern times. It's not a question of limited imagination, it's more the fact that the open calls for white genocide and demonization of white male sexuality (and whatever alternative hedonism is allowed to flourished, white guys getting hard for paris hilton and scoring is not permitted) all of which is now ubiquitous. A real problem is this attitude from a lot of right wing scolds/trad boys (which greer sort of but not exclusively falls into) where all hedonisms are created equal. White guys banging sexy blonde whores or prostitutes is the same as troons in girls bathrooms, blacks having 80 kids and gay gay gay everywhere. It's not. Not for society, and not in the name of just normal basic self interests. Who cares if it's hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is normal and healthy. Whites obsession with moral consistency is intellectual poison.
"Why do we long for liberalisms glory days". Because of something the vanguard doesn't want to admit. Most people just want to have money, sex, smoke some dope and not be shamed by crazy women and minorities. They don't want this vanguard crap and that bogus narrative is based on a false reading of history that projects the repressive hyper morality of the last few centuries onto our ancient past that they would consider anathema. Most westerners from most time periods would be much more at home with something like the more pro white (or at least not anti white) culture of the milleniall (where the rap songs are about herb and pussy, not killing whites) or listening to shinedown/nickelback, whatever. Ken Lecorte discusses this in his video on prostitution. For most of european history, the hyper morality the trads/vanguard want to return us to did not characterize most western european societies. It is an historical aberration.
Scott can give an outdated history lesson on hipsters all he wants. The fact is that the founder father of hipsterdom is Gavin Mcinnes and he DID play a significant role in getting Trump elected the first time. Talking about people's desire for hedonism as bad (when it's normal) and bemoaning limited imagination ignores how fast the rate of change is now compared to most of history. Observing some similarities between now and 20 years ago completely ignores how much different zoomers are from us in their behavior (they don't party, they don't have fun, they're miserable people, they worship women and minorities, their morality is oppressive, their whole life is their phone). Claiming that others in the past were more sophisticated because they romanticized more 'artistic' times or whatever is actuallly stupid because our generation longs for something we actually know about instead of just making shit up, which is what these supposed sophisticates of the past did. The other important difference is that we're fundamentally correct, whereas these people in past epochs that are romanticized were actually quite hedonistic. And good for them. Because it's normal. Pretending that everybody was doing no nut november until the day before yesterday is stupid. It's not about imagination. The truth is life didn't change that much for most people until the day before yesterday. So your horizons being limited to your own life is the norm.
The trash culture was wonderful. Black eyed peas were awesome. Fear Factor was awesome. Gonzo porn was awesome. The man show was awesome. Howard Stern used to be awesome. Jackass was awesome. It happened because people were sick of it not happening and lo and behold, people were phucking miserable once it was gone. Figure it out, sherlock.
The recession of 2008 actually did screw up the economic models of most countries in a way they really haven't properly recovered from and nostalgia for the pre-recession years actually makes sense, say, in the UK, where almost 20 years of trying to find a strategy that isn't unleashing the City and accepting that capitalism has booms and bust have been a busted flush.
What makes MUCH less sense is to be nostalgic for the oughts while also endorsing tariffs and nationalist politics. It's possible to argue that the liberal system of that period was always unsustainable and can't just be revived but believing exactly the opposite economic ideas will bring it back is stupendously dumb. Across the political spectrum, nostalgia for the 1990s and 2000s culturally overlaps with populist silliness. You don't have to accept the entire Marxist canon to believe economics have an enormous social upstream effect, so all these people come across as senseless
2000’s was in no way (at least from a young person’s perspective) right wing coded, and that Brittany Hugoboom (who I find super annoying) are just so wrong. The music scene at the time were Green Day with American Idiot and Blink 182’s self titled album as well as all the New Metal and Atlanta/ Houston Rap scene, and then late 2000’s music like Chevelle, All-American Rejects etc (Conservative culture indeed!)
Simply put, simpler times and it reminds us how quickly demographics have shifted things. Culture was stupid but at least there were fewer ESL classes. Peoples values started to fall, as this era laid the ground work for woke (I remember every asshole in my AP classes being pro gay and pro abortion)
I would rather yearn for the 50’s or 80’s or Maury Povich 2000’s.
You don't mention it, but another reason 2007 is appealing is that it's the last year of the pre-smartphone age.
Yeah, more than anything else, this is it. This is the only explanation that makes sense.
I think more than being nostalgic, a key feature of Conservatism is pessimism. Yesterday was always better and the walls are closing in today. Most Conservative commentators say something to effect of, "Listen to me! I won't solve any problem, but I'll make sure you notice the crap around us and you can get real upset!"
Then there's the Candace O-level of commentators, in which it's not only falling apart, but supernatural forces are at play.
Matt Walsh, though he makes good points, is an Olympian standard of a Conservative. I don't like these people in general. I don't see the point in politics if it just makes you upset.
I have seen many on the Right say it is absolutely shocking that many of their old suburban grade schools are now only between 10% to 20% White. Many also have a demographic nostalgia for the 90s and 2000s.
Actual romanticism is, if not always accurate, very useful. It normally calls to mind great virtues and deeds to emulate in our own way for this time. Nostalgia is just gay and useless.
Yeah as someone who was actually in middle/high school in that time, it sucked, especially if you were genuinely conservative. Eleven, twelve, thirteen year olds were obsessed with sex and would bully you for being a virgin or not talking about sex constantly. Everything was about rap music, absolutely everything, including for whites. Every day there were a dozen people around you just compulsively muttering rap lyrics. The culture was extremely trashy and vulgar. The comedies weren't funny but you were supposed to pretend that Seth Rogen-style "dude weed lmao" and people just talking about something sexual was hilarious.
As for "our" politics it was horrible. You were a neocon, you were some kind of goofy libertarian, or you were a smarmy Jon Stewart/Colbert watcher + New Atheist. There was no in between and there was no opportunity for anything resembling what the online right is into today.
I do have a lot of nostalgia for Xbox and Linkin Park now, but largely because I didn't have a lot of friends at the time (or the opportunity to hang out with them) and I missed that. Also because looking back, in some cases those things were a lot more sincere and high quality than what we have now. But Scott is absolutely right, there's no Retvrn to Evropa going on there.
Growing up in the 90s, sexual pressure from women was not something I was prepared to deal with. Hook up culture is one of the many things the 00s gave us that can die screaming in hell.
I think it’s more that 2007 was the last “normal” year, so to speak. Pre-recession, good, new media still being released, iPhone just invented, Facebook first spreads to non-college students, last year of replacement rate births for White Americans
Maybe a lot of woke features will under go this. The typical woke fashion choices like dyed hair and piercings are becoming more common in rural America as they kind of fall out of vogue among EHC. I know of someone who is a dyed hair fat pierced non binary goblin straight out of tumble but she lives with her mom in a trailer park not on a college campus.
To a certain extent, poor rural culture is just what was cool 20 years ago in NYC.
If we ever start being nostalgic about Zoomer culture, I'm done. I'll just go be a monk somewhere.
People in general have no clue about time or when things happen, only basing recent history on vague recollections and garbled pop culture references. So it is frustrating with reactions to a video like this, but not surprising.
My question is, "We want something better to dream of" ... like what? What does the future we want look like?
Everyone is 12 and wants to go back to when they were 12.
As someone who was hipster adjacent 2007-2012 I have a real soft spot for the movement and its ethos… a love of the local, excellence in craft, music and style that leaned ironic but ultimately prioritized beauty and sincerity. But — and this is important! The right’s characterization of “the hipster” as an artifact of white culture isn’t entirely accurate. In the sunbelt, at least, “chipsters” (Chicano hipsters and emos) were a huge part of the movement and were involved in a lot of immigrant rights organizing, which has since evolved into the democratic machine in the region. I kid you not when I say that Arizona is purple now because a bunch of Anglo and Latino kids hung out at The Format shows and drank PBR together 15-20 years ago.
The big race moment of the 00s was a teacher calling a student 'nigga' after the student said it to him. Compared to 2010s BLM and 90s Rodney King/OJ it was a post racial paradise although a large part of this was the gay marriage push.
Question to the other readers: if it were actually possible to RETVRN to a particular year (and then, presumably, take a different turning from that point onwards), what year would you choose?
If we're making a practical and recent course correction, go back to 1972 and prevent the Watergate coup.
If we're getting REALLY ambitious, go back to 1619 and start sinking slave ships until they get the hint. "Leave 'em on the beach, fellas, you've no idea what you're starting."
How do you think things would be better if Nixon had served out his second term?
1992 the end of the Cold War, seems to have been a pivotal moment. Somehow, someway, our country (culture) went in the wrong direction.
There are people against hummers...? Like.....men?!
Oh, sorry, you mean the vehicle.
Please proceed, Govenor.
Hard disagree with pretty much all of Greer's takes here. For most people, as opposed to some self proclaimed counter elite (which as Scott would rightly argue, they only think they are) the mundane is the most important and enduring aspect of people's lives, whether in ancient or modern times. It's not a question of limited imagination, it's more the fact that the open calls for white genocide and demonization of white male sexuality (and whatever alternative hedonism is allowed to flourished, white guys getting hard for paris hilton and scoring is not permitted) all of which is now ubiquitous. A real problem is this attitude from a lot of right wing scolds/trad boys (which greer sort of but not exclusively falls into) where all hedonisms are created equal. White guys banging sexy blonde whores or prostitutes is the same as troons in girls bathrooms, blacks having 80 kids and gay gay gay everywhere. It's not. Not for society, and not in the name of just normal basic self interests. Who cares if it's hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is normal and healthy. Whites obsession with moral consistency is intellectual poison.
"Why do we long for liberalisms glory days". Because of something the vanguard doesn't want to admit. Most people just want to have money, sex, smoke some dope and not be shamed by crazy women and minorities. They don't want this vanguard crap and that bogus narrative is based on a false reading of history that projects the repressive hyper morality of the last few centuries onto our ancient past that they would consider anathema. Most westerners from most time periods would be much more at home with something like the more pro white (or at least not anti white) culture of the milleniall (where the rap songs are about herb and pussy, not killing whites) or listening to shinedown/nickelback, whatever. Ken Lecorte discusses this in his video on prostitution. For most of european history, the hyper morality the trads/vanguard want to return us to did not characterize most western european societies. It is an historical aberration.
Scott can give an outdated history lesson on hipsters all he wants. The fact is that the founder father of hipsterdom is Gavin Mcinnes and he DID play a significant role in getting Trump elected the first time. Talking about people's desire for hedonism as bad (when it's normal) and bemoaning limited imagination ignores how fast the rate of change is now compared to most of history. Observing some similarities between now and 20 years ago completely ignores how much different zoomers are from us in their behavior (they don't party, they don't have fun, they're miserable people, they worship women and minorities, their morality is oppressive, their whole life is their phone). Claiming that others in the past were more sophisticated because they romanticized more 'artistic' times or whatever is actuallly stupid because our generation longs for something we actually know about instead of just making shit up, which is what these supposed sophisticates of the past did. The other important difference is that we're fundamentally correct, whereas these people in past epochs that are romanticized were actually quite hedonistic. And good for them. Because it's normal. Pretending that everybody was doing no nut november until the day before yesterday is stupid. It's not about imagination. The truth is life didn't change that much for most people until the day before yesterday. So your horizons being limited to your own life is the norm.
The trash culture was wonderful. Black eyed peas were awesome. Fear Factor was awesome. Gonzo porn was awesome. The man show was awesome. Howard Stern used to be awesome. Jackass was awesome. It happened because people were sick of it not happening and lo and behold, people were phucking miserable once it was gone. Figure it out, sherlock.
>Gonzo porn was awesome
You don't have to go away mad, just go away
You first, asshat. PS this is America. Change your name or seek Canadian health care, phuck's sake.
Degeneracy kills society. Case and point.
A meaningless statement, not an argument. Only an idiot can't tell a statement from an argument. Ahem...case and point.
The recession of 2008 actually did screw up the economic models of most countries in a way they really haven't properly recovered from and nostalgia for the pre-recession years actually makes sense, say, in the UK, where almost 20 years of trying to find a strategy that isn't unleashing the City and accepting that capitalism has booms and bust have been a busted flush.
What makes MUCH less sense is to be nostalgic for the oughts while also endorsing tariffs and nationalist politics. It's possible to argue that the liberal system of that period was always unsustainable and can't just be revived but believing exactly the opposite economic ideas will bring it back is stupendously dumb. Across the political spectrum, nostalgia for the 1990s and 2000s culturally overlaps with populist silliness. You don't have to accept the entire Marxist canon to believe economics have an enormous social upstream effect, so all these people come across as senseless
Great article. I agree 100%
2000’s was in no way (at least from a young person’s perspective) right wing coded, and that Brittany Hugoboom (who I find super annoying) are just so wrong. The music scene at the time were Green Day with American Idiot and Blink 182’s self titled album as well as all the New Metal and Atlanta/ Houston Rap scene, and then late 2000’s music like Chevelle, All-American Rejects etc (Conservative culture indeed!)
Simply put, simpler times and it reminds us how quickly demographics have shifted things. Culture was stupid but at least there were fewer ESL classes. Peoples values started to fall, as this era laid the ground work for woke (I remember every asshole in my AP classes being pro gay and pro abortion)
I would rather yearn for the 50’s or 80’s or Maury Povich 2000’s.
Highly Respected article