And of course the giant elephant in the room are the apocalypse level TFRs.
If our elite were replaced by East Asians (let alone Indians) we could expect America to be poorer, less innovative, and to have an extremely low birthrate.
The problem is that being a grind can work if you've got a system to latch onto. But when you become the system it breaks.
East Asians will probably continue contributing especially in highly technical fields where grind is necessary and their high spatial intelligence is at a premium. But elites as a whole need a much wider set of skills then that.
With AI changing the way we think about white collar work, I imagine colleges like those in the SEC will become the norm. More about the experience and the vibe than the education.
STEM in general requires high intelligence, high diligence, and what you have called a rather "worker bee culture". I did Physics and eventually my Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering - Materials over 50 and 40 years ago, respectively. It was required then. It is required now. 50 Years ago in Physics I was competing with the children of the Holocaust survivors - I think a rather tougher group than the Asians my kids competed with in college in the last 5 to 15 years. I told my kids that the Asians would be their peers and competitors and to get used to it and exceed the bar. My daughter did Civil Engineering - Structures, a reasonably demanding major. My son did Business - MIS. While not as academically demanding as structural analysis, the competition in accounting from hopeful accountants was not trivial. My son did get a lot of experience in team projects and rapidly realized that he had to lead the teams to make sure that he did not suffer from team members slacking - and in the process he realized the importance of trying to get good team members and assign responsibilities appropriately.
We will have to see how the AI's/LLM's develop, but school party culture does not seem to me to prepare its followers for anything outside of possible marketing roles, and that could be a stretch.
The business school emphasis on working collaboratively in groups is almost certainly an important skill. It coincides from what my ROTC peers told me about some of their ROTC classes 50+ years ago. I expect practice is still the case.
Forgive my ignorance but it seems the common response would then be the striver culture produces people who lack creativity and are only able to conform. That real innovation comes from a chad ladies man like Von Braun not some nerd who stays up at night playing with his train set and cant look at you in the eye
I work in electrical engineering, but not nearly as long as the other commenter that you are talking to worked in his field. From what my coworkers and I see the whites are generally the ones making the innovations and receiving patent pursues. The asians work hard but there is some creativity lacking, even when trying to do daily tasks.
That can be said, but I doubt that it is true. You need a good understanding of the systems and where the limits are to have a reasonable chance of building something that works. Just coming up with creative ideas is essentially useless unless you have a good understanding of the actual limits and constraints you are working with. But I have been thinking of the natural sciences. With respect to people and their behavior the guidelines are less constraining - people can be exceeding irrational and are very susceptible to socially oriented marketing and manipulation. I always avoided those areas because I did not think like most people and what made sense to me would not make sense to most of the population.
Many clear pills. You have previously mentioned that more diversity in the form of blacks leads to more RW politics. Let's hope this is the case going forward in the SEC
We don't need the trad, suffocating (in my view) southern culture, nor do we need workaholic asians taking our jobs and restructuring america so that white people don't get to have a life because there's some nerd asian who will work 20 hours a day. How about just a moderate work ethic, kick out the nonwhites, and tell southerners to keep their bibles to themselves? Makes sense to me.
I've thought about this question since I work with the up and coming Asian strivers in my classes. It's somewhat mistaken to call it all grind culture. Many Asians, particularly the ones who grew up in America, have largely transcended the stubborn grind approach to work and actually begin to become well-rounded high achievers, participating in sports, socializing with their peers, and cultivating interests and passions outside of academics. Sure, some still resist this and single-mindedly take the grinding approach. But others will ask me what they should read and have genuine questions about the world. It's kinda nice.
Sure, this still comes more naturally to the other students with more of an American background, but they are nothing close to the Southern gentry elite with exquisite soft skills, athletic prowess, and boosted creativity. I don't doubt that they exist, but they're such a small number and attend the private schools insulated from the world. The large mass of above-average non-Asians tend to be just as worker-bee and incurious as the above-average Asians. Whatever natural advantages they have tend to go undeveloped and they end up in the middle of pack when college and the work world. I'm not sensing any savvy or independence of spirit.
And so much of this could be end up moot since a college degree has been thrown into doubt and the number of eligible applicants is contracting rapidly. Our best and brightest may just bypass this traditional rite of passage and make their way in the world without this increasingly worthless credential.
As an East Coast nerd, I can't imagine wanting to be in one of those places. But I'm glad they exist for people who like them, and frankly, the way woke is going, I'm starting to wonder if they're the lesser of two evils for me as well.
Conservatives have always opposed explicit racial quotas since the 60s, thinking it would screw over the whites and benefit the blacks but I think nowadays the race that would benefit the most from it are the whites.
The East Asian tigers all stalled out in the 1990s. Their GDP per capita is 60% of ours and their productivity per hour worked is lower.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_labour_productivity
Rates of innovation per capita lag too.
And of course the giant elephant in the room are the apocalypse level TFRs.
If our elite were replaced by East Asians (let alone Indians) we could expect America to be poorer, less innovative, and to have an extremely low birthrate.
The problem is that being a grind can work if you've got a system to latch onto. But when you become the system it breaks.
East Asians will probably continue contributing especially in highly technical fields where grind is necessary and their high spatial intelligence is at a premium. But elites as a whole need a much wider set of skills then that.
With AI changing the way we think about white collar work, I imagine colleges like those in the SEC will become the norm. More about the experience and the vibe than the education.
STEM in general requires high intelligence, high diligence, and what you have called a rather "worker bee culture". I did Physics and eventually my Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering - Materials over 50 and 40 years ago, respectively. It was required then. It is required now. 50 Years ago in Physics I was competing with the children of the Holocaust survivors - I think a rather tougher group than the Asians my kids competed with in college in the last 5 to 15 years. I told my kids that the Asians would be their peers and competitors and to get used to it and exceed the bar. My daughter did Civil Engineering - Structures, a reasonably demanding major. My son did Business - MIS. While not as academically demanding as structural analysis, the competition in accounting from hopeful accountants was not trivial. My son did get a lot of experience in team projects and rapidly realized that he had to lead the teams to make sure that he did not suffer from team members slacking - and in the process he realized the importance of trying to get good team members and assign responsibilities appropriately.
We will have to see how the AI's/LLM's develop, but school party culture does not seem to me to prepare its followers for anything outside of possible marketing roles, and that could be a stretch.
The business school emphasis on working collaboratively in groups is almost certainly an important skill. It coincides from what my ROTC peers told me about some of their ROTC classes 50+ years ago. I expect practice is still the case.
Forgive my ignorance but it seems the common response would then be the striver culture produces people who lack creativity and are only able to conform. That real innovation comes from a chad ladies man like Von Braun not some nerd who stays up at night playing with his train set and cant look at you in the eye
I work in electrical engineering, but not nearly as long as the other commenter that you are talking to worked in his field. From what my coworkers and I see the whites are generally the ones making the innovations and receiving patent pursues. The asians work hard but there is some creativity lacking, even when trying to do daily tasks.
That can be said, but I doubt that it is true. You need a good understanding of the systems and where the limits are to have a reasonable chance of building something that works. Just coming up with creative ideas is essentially useless unless you have a good understanding of the actual limits and constraints you are working with. But I have been thinking of the natural sciences. With respect to people and their behavior the guidelines are less constraining - people can be exceeding irrational and are very susceptible to socially oriented marketing and manipulation. I always avoided those areas because I did not think like most people and what made sense to me would not make sense to most of the population.
Many clear pills. You have previously mentioned that more diversity in the form of blacks leads to more RW politics. Let's hope this is the case going forward in the SEC
We don't need the trad, suffocating (in my view) southern culture, nor do we need workaholic asians taking our jobs and restructuring america so that white people don't get to have a life because there's some nerd asian who will work 20 hours a day. How about just a moderate work ethic, kick out the nonwhites, and tell southerners to keep their bibles to themselves? Makes sense to me.
Anyone who has gone to university (especially business school), knows Asians are prolific cheaters. Goes for East & South Asians.
I've thought about this question since I work with the up and coming Asian strivers in my classes. It's somewhat mistaken to call it all grind culture. Many Asians, particularly the ones who grew up in America, have largely transcended the stubborn grind approach to work and actually begin to become well-rounded high achievers, participating in sports, socializing with their peers, and cultivating interests and passions outside of academics. Sure, some still resist this and single-mindedly take the grinding approach. But others will ask me what they should read and have genuine questions about the world. It's kinda nice.
Sure, this still comes more naturally to the other students with more of an American background, but they are nothing close to the Southern gentry elite with exquisite soft skills, athletic prowess, and boosted creativity. I don't doubt that they exist, but they're such a small number and attend the private schools insulated from the world. The large mass of above-average non-Asians tend to be just as worker-bee and incurious as the above-average Asians. Whatever natural advantages they have tend to go undeveloped and they end up in the middle of pack when college and the work world. I'm not sensing any savvy or independence of spirit.
And so much of this could be end up moot since a college degree has been thrown into doubt and the number of eligible applicants is contracting rapidly. Our best and brightest may just bypass this traditional rite of passage and make their way in the world without this increasingly worthless credential.
Good college has always somewhat been about meeting your peer group and being merged into the elite so I am 100% behind this generally.
As an East Coast nerd, I can't imagine wanting to be in one of those places. But I'm glad they exist for people who like them, and frankly, the way woke is going, I'm starting to wonder if they're the lesser of two evils for me as well.
Conservatives have always opposed explicit racial quotas since the 60s, thinking it would screw over the whites and benefit the blacks but I think nowadays the race that would benefit the most from it are the whites.